Joined this forum cause I relapsed after 34 days

Submitted by tiredofbeing duped on Thu, 26/05/2011 - 20:42

tiredofbeing duped's picture

It's taken me a long time to make this connection: I manage my unresolved emotions with porn. But I'm at a point that I can't afford to to ignore it any longer.

At age 49, I've dabbled in mediums of porn since my teen years, but it didn't start to be a habitual problem until my discovery of the easy-to-access world of online porn about 5 years ago. As an introverted graphic designer who is always on the computer, online porn was tailored made for my escape from my social insecurities. When I was laid off my job 6 months ago, and frustrated with my career, my love-hate relationship with porn became clearer that it was consuming too much time.

I had tried unsuccessfully quitting porn several times throughout the years. One helpful step though was I began working with a therapist over a year ago. It took a lot to open up about my porn habit--so much shame. At first we explored why I felt so much guilt ( I suppose initially I didn't really explain the extent of my habit). Although getting it out in the open was like a huge weight lifted off my shoulders, we also discussed other issues and I noticed that I was still losing myself in porn. So the next attempt at quitting came by going to a 12-step program for sex addiction. I gave it a few tries, and it definitely provided motivation, but I never really felt it was right for me, which I won't go into detail as to why at this time.

After many failed attempts at cutting back and being confused, the next big step came when I was online, and by chance came across a link to an article at Guardian.co.uk about women using porn. "What?!" probably was my reaction. "You mean chicks likes this stuff, too." This grabbed my curiosity. However, rather than being saucy, the article was quite sobering and led me to the link for the "Quit Porn Addiction" website. I related with what I read when I visited this site, and bookmarked it. Eventually I downloaded Jason's PGO book--only after doing some research and I felt confident this wasn't just another money making racket. Jason story gave me a sense of confidence and hope.

So after reading some of PGO, I was motivated. I told my therapist about it. From the reading, I was convinced the remedy was no longer a matter of regulating my hours (at that time I was logging my hours spent on porn as part of an agreement with him), but I needed to give up the porn habit. This decision was enough for me to amazingly quit for 34 days! The images I craved became less frequent. I started taking dance lessons, and called a friend or two to hang out. Things seemed clearer and I told my therapists I have no intention of going back to porn. Well, nine days ago I relapsed. It started with indulging with "yellow circle" behavior, and by the next morning turned into "What the hell!"

In my journal writing about the trigger to this relapse, I realized something crucial. After my 30+ days, I had then reached a point of facing the insecurities of socializing and what to do with sexual attractions. In other words, the anxiety that led me to escape to online porn in the first place. After going back to reading PGO, I decided to join this forum. I realize it could help to share and connect my story where I can. I am tired of being duped by porn, and want to learn to develop real relationships. As a single male, I would like to believe there is a place for integrating healthy sexuality, but think it is probably best if it is based on being more self-aware of my feelings and learning to take care of myself around others.

For my next entry, I'm considering writing about what is healthy sexuality for single male anyway.

Hi tiredof,

Welcome to the forum. That's a thoughtful, frank and above all heartfelt post and I could recognise plenty of myself in there.

I also tried various approaches, including therapy and attending a couple of 12-step meetings. Like you, I didn't feel that the group was right for me (even though it was a positively humbling experience that gave me a lot of perspective). I have never felt like a sex addict and that's not denial talking. Compulsive porn use is different, I'm sure of it.

Interesting that you went for so long and stepped up to facing the insecurities you were using porn to escape from. And then slipping back - I recognise myself there too.

I wonder what self-talk you might have heard when you edged back into the 'yellow' zone. I hear various prompts, like "you're over this now so just 10 minutes" or "porn today for a treat and then another month without". Sometimes I fall into a binge and sometimes I catch myself and deal with it. Jason's book and this site have helped me to deal with it more and more consistently.

So that's my message of support, in a long-winded way :) It does get easier to manage those urges. Mindfulness and urge surfing (same thing?) have helped me face this by myself and I've engaged much more in life. You have definitely set this ball rolling for yourself. Good luck.

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I'm back. Thanks for your thoughtful comment Duncans. I am still getting use to how this forum works, and I was expecting a notification if anyone commented on my post, but didn't get one. I'll eventually figure it out.

Yes, I think I identify with the addiction vs. compulsion. It's a fine line, but I think that if I was addicted i would be feeling the same urge to watch porn when I am sexually active in a real relationship, and that has not been the case. Further more, I know I enjoy sex more than porn, but at this age of my life don't chase sex without considering the consequences--something I've heard a sex addict has a terrible time stopping himself from doing. I think the 12-step program is great for some, but I'm more concerned with self-managing my emotions and integrating healthy sexual behavior.

I'm sure the self-talk when I relapsed was some kind of excuse that I could handle a peek at soft-porn. My relapse lasted 9 days of peeking by the way, with two mammoth sessions. Felt pretty shitty like I was in a tailspin. I've been writing in my journal about the trigger, and that's been a difficult, but a useful bit of self-awareness.

I hadn't heard of "urge surfing" until I read your comment. I have started practicing meditation and mindfulness already, so it was very helpful to google more about the practice. (At first I thought it had to do with surfing online :). The visual of surfing waves seems like good resource and so less judgmental.

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I am going to my dance class tonight.

It was two weeks ago, after my dance class, that after 34 days without porn I relapsed. What happened was I wound up partnering with an attractive woman (that is probably too young for me to be even considering anything) who was very friendly with me after class. At least I can give my self credit that I can be a good dancer. The trigger seems to be deep, like it is from a long time ago. I was fine when I was concentrating on dancing, but after the class to have an attractive woman taking initiative to show interest in me was a challenge. I think there was a part of me that made a fantasy of her. Like she could be like an object of a porn fantasy with no strings attached. This was in conflict with another part of me that I think knew that was not real nor what I'm looking for.

The way I am going to approach it tonight if she is there, is appreciate that I have someone to practice something I enjoy, and if I find her attractive that is a nice feeling too. I will acknowledge there is nothing wrong with feeling sexual attraction, and let it go at that. There is more to real relationships. Attraction does not preclude there is a real person there and not just some 2-dimensional porn fantasy. Likewise, I am not just some fantasy for anyone either, and I value being a real, self-aware person.

I wanted to mention I now have a DNS account to filter porn sites. It gave me a boost of confidence that I have a little more of a handle on an unexpected relapse. I am determined to engage real people.

Lastly, as some of you might detect from my spellings, I am what many of you in the UK, I think, call a yank. Although members here are from around the world, it is inspiring to read accounts from real people struggling to get over porn, too. And although it can seem weird to be sharing with people I will not meet face to face, it gives me courage to be more real with the people I do encounter in my local, real life. Good luck and thanks to all.

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I danced with the same woman. It triggered me a little, but all in all, it was a good experience. The feeling I came home with was some sadness. After trying to determine what I was sad about, my sense is it was more like grief. Strangely enough, I feel I was grieving the loss of making this woman a sex fantasy. We talked a little after class again (her initiative) and we had a nice little exchange about passion for dance. The grief struck me as very odd, but it made sense if I am letting go of an old fantasy--that having sex (maybe as a substitute for affection) is what will fulfill me. If this is correct, and I let myself grieve this fantasy, I am left with being my real self, and enjoying the occasional company of someone who shares a passion. I'd like that.

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Well done for fighting this yank ;)

You know, it might just be that the girl likes you, you know? Oddly enough I was engaged to a yank who was a lot younger than me once and she was the light of my life. You never know what fate can bring you.

I think you should carry on just avoiding porn and trying not to think about it. If you need releif, then do it without porn. It may feel like you failed before, but you managed 34 days without. Forget the failure and just think of the time since those 9 days off the wagon as the last time you'll do it. It seems like everyone screws up in a similar way to you (to varying intensities) around the 30 day mark. I did. I've not touched porn since then.

I would also suggest you try hypnotism if you are really, really addicted, as I've just had it used it on my current fiancee (the american died) and its done her amazing good. This wasnt for a porn addiction, but for something else and the change afterwards was incredible.

Either way, dont analyse too much and dont think about porn or your feelings towards it too much. As has been said here, your brain will adjust to doing withuot the kick of porn more and more the longer you do without it. Sounded crap to me when I first heard it, but it appears to hold true. With Open DNS and with this place, I've been off porn for a long long time now and I feel very good about myself. I "could" go back to it easily enough, but then so could a ex-smoker.

Hope you and the dancing girl get on well and you learn all about the much, much nicer side of women. They are not just bodies and sex, they are nice people with whom you can talk and fall for and that falling leads to love, which beats the crap out of any porn.

Oh and I'm not far off your age mate and i'm not about to give up thinking I'm attractive to the opposite sex just yet. I'm apparently not (hence being engaged) ad despite the wrinles I see in th emirror, I can for once look myself in the eye and feel good about myself and know I am not hiding anything.

I've even cut right down on alcohol and sugar... who knows, I might even get back into exercising... might :)

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"They are not just bodies and sex, they are nice people with whom you can talk and fall for and that falling leads to love, which beats the crap out of any porn."
Can't say I have felt that experience too much Nomad, but it has a real nice sound to it. Sounds like you went through a painful loss, but know there is something so much more worth having than a relationship with porn. Best to your new relationship and strength to you.

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If that woman is decades younger than you (ie young enough to be our daughter), then maybe its the father figure thing. I dont know how much younger you are talking. My fiancee was 11 years younger which I thought was pushing it, but she was a determined so and so, so I agreed to her wishes.

Anyway, enjoy that there is someone there to dance with and who likes you for whatever reason. :)

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Had such a busy work day on the computer. Sometimes I had to grit my teeth as I pictured myself riding the waves. These were fucking huge waves. I recognized it's not so much the stress that triggers me as much as the self-talk. I noticed thoughts of "I am not working fast enough therefore I am no good." I tried turning that message into "I am not the fastest, but I do above satisfactory work which counts a lot in design business." The worst that can happen is I explain to my client what took so long, and they'll know they get what they pay for. It has nothing to do with my self-worth.

Oh, and i went without porn today though it wasn't the smoothest ride. Getting off has its perks, but rather than thinking of the porn I am missing, I'd rather think about the real me in relationships I have been missing.

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A good book to get out of thinking the negative way you are is Overcoming Depression. A self Help Guide Using Cognitive Bahavioural Theory by Paul Gilbert. ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Overcoming-Depression-Self-help-Behavioral-Techn...). Ignore the depression bit and it tackles exactly the sort of thing you are talkign about.

Well done for managing through the day.

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Thanks for the suggestion, Nomad, but I have already have read about Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT). :)

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I see, I'm guessing a website link kicks in the moderation... the wonders of computer filters ;)

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I've been getting more in touch with the grief I feel about letting go of the porn fantasy. It's odd to think I've been living for a sexual fantasy to fulfill me. I guess I convinced myself I couldn't get anything else to fulfill me. But letting go the porn "actress" is a small price to pay to engage life with a fuller self-awareness.

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Was feeling the urge this morning. Contemplated taking a peek. Fortunately, I have OpenDNS in place, and I would have to inform my friend if I retrieved the password. Not worth it. I wrote in my personal journal instead.

I am making attempts at companionship and I am sure that is bringing up uneasy feelings. Riding it out the urge and the acknowledging the feelings that come up is a small price to pay for fostering new relationships with more self-awareness and self-care. I feel better now that I rode it out, and I'm going to take care of myself by going for a nice walk and renting a comedy DVD.

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Urges are coming strong as I find myself home alone a lot lately. Last night was tough, but I rode them out successfully. I identified feelings of depression. I am struggling since being laid off whether to continue in my career that does not satisfy me, or take a risk to make a career change. If I make a career change, this can feel overwhelming. If I don't make a career change, I feel despondent about getting locked in to some job I don't like and will stress me out.

How I Managed: Let myself feel my feeling of depression…instead of trying to dismiss it. What might it be telling me? I have identified the inner struggle I have about my career path. Plan to research more into career options and talk with my therapist about it. Perhaps I can look at my next job as temporary.

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Know where you are coming from on that.

My career had currently got me in a situation where I'm driving 100 miles a day to work and to a job I can hardly say i'm rivetted by. However its a job and it pays well. I guess a bonus of being so tired from the driving is it makes porn less interesting :)

I'm going to just ride with it and see where life takes me. Maybe the driving will prove too much, maybe 'll get sacked, maybe I'll win the lottery. Whatever happens, I'll try and enjoy a few beers and a few moments along the way. I'd love to be a teacher or an author, but neither pay the bills and like most people my age, I have bills....living is so damned expensive.

Anyways, good luck and well done on Day 9. I found it quite hard around that time.

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Ya! I have been thinking of this for over 10 year, but always stop myself bc of fear i cannot do or make a living in areas I really am interested in. But, the thought came to me today, that if I am depressed from my work, then why not give myself at least "some chance" of doing something that is more of who I am. It might not be practical, but just surviving and being depressed is no way to live. If feels good to at least inquiring.

Seems avoiding the porn confronts me with decisions I've been procrastinating due to fear.

Cheers!

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Yes, I think that now you're off porn, you probably have a lot more free time on your hands and you can spend that time thinking about other things and not "what does she look like naked". I dread to think how much meaningless utterly wasteful time I spent on porn. Not only was it wasteful, but it was also destructive and as you said it makes you avoid real world issues. I used to tell myself I used it because of stress, but the truth was closer to what you pointed out, I was avoiding reality.

Anyway time to try to get back to sleep. hopefully that guy next door has stopped watching TV.

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Relationships. They sure can be difficult for me to navigate. I've been thinking this week about someone I met again last Friday and I realize I've been anxious--though I try to be cool--about seeing her again. To deal with some of the anxiety and uncertainty of what's ahead I found myself looking at some non-nude model sites (yellow territory). It lasted an hour or so. I was able to stop, so after a long walk tonight, I tried it again. Sure enough it lead to trying to view something more explicit. I reasoned I'm just looking at modeling, just something innocuous...nothing hardcore.... Well, thanks to my Open DNS, I was blocked! Whew. This is one of those times I needed it's help to snap me out of the pull.

So now I am back to the anxiety I have been feeling. I am going to have to just accept that's part of what I'm feeling and I don't want to make it worse by undermining any confidence I have been rebuilding. It just ain't worth it!

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Recognize the Progress. This is a had lesson to learn, but I feel its essential. I've been keeping this and a regular private journal for 18 days now, along with not having visited my habitual porn sites. I say my habitual porn sites, because last night I did have a minor relapse. I got through my filters and found a site that had a few photos and previews. I did not masturbate and it was by far not a mammoth session. However, it was a porn site and it pushed me to consider what is my recovery plan.

I read a comment on this site by Nathan B. called "Slip Up, Don't Give Up" that I appreciated. Thanks Nathan if you ever read this. He wrote about how the change of this well established habit will probably take a few attempts for some of us, and the value to become aware of one's triggers. Makes sense to me.

I don't want to make any excuses for dabbling in porn. That would be playing with fire for me. Breaking my dependency on the porn game is part of my recovery plan. Yet, for a long-term recovery, my plan is to recondition my triggers (cognitive distortions) and begin to develop healthier ways of coping with anxiety.

I believe I am aware of my number one and deepest trigger. It seems to be the unconscious fear and belief that I am unworthy [of love, my needs, my rights, of being myself, a good job, etc…]. This awareness will help my recovery. When I'm feeling anxious, one thing I can practice is telling myself "I am worthy of my personal integrity (like every other active human being), and porn is not where I am going to find more confidence." Last night I realize I had major self-doubt going on.

In considering how practice prepares athletes and artists for "performing when the pressure is on", it makes sense that even a better time to practice visualizing myself as worthy is when I am not so stressed. This would help prepare me for the stress and anxiety that will always be down the road. As others have found, mediation and mindfulness have been helpful tools for this.

This is day 18 of my process...and I have made progress.

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Hello Tired,

Thanks for the acknowledgement, I'm glad you found my post helpful.

It's interesting that you consider a sense of unworthiness to be a trigger. I wonder if it might be more of an underlying cause for you. We can get tied up in semantics but I suppose the difference is that one relates to unmet needs whilst the other prompts a behavioural habit.

For instance, some people with porn dependency issues will have initially turned to it for comfort during a difficult period - perhaps losing a job or relationship difficulties. This issue could be categorised as a 'cause'. In turning to porn at this time they learn that it makes them feel better and so they use it to self-medicate. A routine develops - they always look at porn when they get home from work, then again when the evening news is on and at the weekend after their weekly golf game. This is part of habit forming.

We can tackle the initial cause - the individual finds a new job or repairs the relationship difficulties. Yet the habit is still there. Why? Because of the behavioural triggers. The mind has learned to associate certain events with a desire to look at porn - opening the front door is a trigger, so is the golf game and the news broadcast.

So in tackling dependency issues we must tackle both the underlying residual causes (which may have already been solved) and the habit's triggers.

The question for you is whether your sense of unworthiness is a trigger or cause. Does it come and go? And when it's gone do you feel no need to look at porn? If it's not a trigger per se, what is? When do you find yourself looking at porn most? Does it relate to a specific feeling or an event?

I want to use an analogy from nicotine withdrawal. As you probably know, nicotine addiction is a physiological dependency. Quitting smokers report withdrawal symptoms and cravings. Yet, most interestingly, the peak of the neural stimulus (i.e. in neurochemical terms, the point when the craving is strongest) occurs 20-30 minutes after a cigarette. That means that every smoker smoking less than 48 evenly paced cigarettes a day, is experiencing full impact cravings daily, without really registering it.

Why is this important? Because when they stop smoking they'll claim that the cravings are very difficult to ignore. Guess what? It's the behavioural triggers, not the chemical dependency that's making this so hard for them.

Habits are very hard to break for good reasons. Our minds are programmed to do as much automatically as possible. We have very little conscious capacity for thought. Rehearsal and practice is the way we learn everything, hardwiring behaviour at a subconscious level. Think of how hard it is to drive a car or play the piano at the beginning. It's actually impossible...until we create a habit.

The good news is that new habits are easy to create. Like learning the piano it's hard at first, but our brains soon figure out what we're trying to do. So, when the individual comes in from the golf game they should force themselves to vacuum the carpet, when they come home from work, enter through a different door and they should stop watching the evening news. This will create a new routine and the memory of the old habit will become weaker and weaker without reinforcement.

I think that your final paragraph about using visualisation to rehearse new responses to triggers is excellent and a proven way to shortcut the process.

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Nathan, I really appreciate the effort in explaining the differences in triggers and causes. Very helpful and good examples. I am much more aware of my causes, which is helpful since it seems they are the driving force to medicate, but I will now be more mindful of my triggers (prompts). The only trigger that comes to mind right now is doing work I don't won't to be doing on the computer. This is going to be a tough one to replace, but perhaps I can get more specific and lean to get up and take more breaks.

As I reconsider careers, I'm very drawn to psychology and wonder what is the source of most your knowledge. Is there a school/kind of psychology that best addresses addiction issues? How did you learn so much about addiction/dependency if you don't mind me asking? I'm very eager to know more about the research and findings.

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Hello again, Tired.

Thanks for your post. I feel compelled to point out that whilst I have taken a very keen interest in this area for a few years, this isn't my full time job. So please bear that in mind as I answer your question!

I probably learned the most about compulsive behaviour from reading books on the subject, speaking to individuals who have and haven't succeeded and looking for patterns in their approach. I've always been most interested in the partner's perspective so I've looked at relationship advice and articles from organisations like RELATE. I am also very interested in the social viewpoint of problem porn users - how non-compulsive porn users view those who say they're 'addicted' and what impact that has on everyone. This tends to build a high level picture which is constantly useful.

Almost 20 years ago I studied Psychology for 2 years at college and I still draw on that knowledge. However Psychology as a subject is incredibly broad and so you have to specialise quite quickly. If you're looking for a career in 'psychology' it's good to think about specific careers and look at their entry requirements. If you want to be a hypnotherapist for instance, you could take a hypnotherapy course. If you want to be a research assistant you might not need anything specific. A psychiatrist.....see you in a decade and a half!

In the UK we have an organisation called The Samaritans. They provide free, 24/7 counselling via telephone/email, using a network of trained volunteers. Their training is very highly regarded and it's free to study in exchange for a commitment of volunteering hours. I'm not sure whether you're in the UK, but this would be a good opportunity if you're considering counselling.

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Thanks for your thoughts, Nathan. Your self taught interest is apparent. I'm in the US, and unfortunately, I don't think we have anything like The Samaritans. But I a will keep researching.

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Well, I managed to turn my OpenDNS for a night and watched some porn. Life can feel so discouraging sometimes, so I remember my compulsive voice egging me on to say "I don't care about anything right now. I just want some comfort." It was very difficult to call my friend the next day who is the keeper of my OpenDNS password to tell him I have a new password. After that night, it's been a struggle. I've been dabbling in teaser sites that aren't filtered. I'll write more about the triggering later, but I must go to an appointment right now.

It's a strange thing this compulsion. Seems perfectly natural to want to enjoy female physical beauty when I am single. Yet, am I confusing the pleasure I get from contrived spectacle of the porn business for the effort it takes to have a loving relationship?

My new photo is of a surfing bear. I want to acknowledge--not despise--the animal instinct in me that wants to copulate. Yet, surfing that bear-like urge seems it will serve my emotional and integral self.

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I have been dabbling in a few sites of late, but today am feeling a little more motivated to change re-commit to a plan. Without a doubt, my sense of self-worth has been really down during this time around relationships and work. I am not happy about this relapse, but I do sense that I am in process that will never again find satisfaction with porn as the coping mechanism.

I'm thinking a lot of my career. To be doing something that feels more like me really seems it would help. I realize I have been laid off from four companies now, and I just don't know if I have the will to go back to what I have been doing. I'm going to keep looking into psychology paths.

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Hello Tired,

Being laid off from a company hits the ego pretty hard. We're conditioned to perceive our careers as a statement of who we are ("Nice to meet you and what do you do?") and financial income is the essential nourishment we need to participate in society. When we accept a job we (naively) place a certain amount of trust in our employers and expect ourselves to be the ones to terminate the contract if and when the time comes to move on. No matter what the actual circumstances are, it's impossible not to think "if they really needed me they wouldn't have made me redundant". This hits even harder when we have dependents at home.

You've had this happen to you four times over - no wonder your self esteem has taken a battering! Right now you need reassurance and comforting, as well as a way of finding some energy to try again.

Unfortunately, as you well know, porn offers that comfort but it comes at an exceedingly high price for some people.

I think you'd benefit from some specialist support for those who've been made redundant. Without knowing the area very well, my inclination would be to suggest looking outside of finding a traditional job for something that makes you feel 'needed'. For instance, perhaps you have an elderly neighbour who you know is by themselves - could you knock on their door and offer help with gardening/shopping? Is there a local charity which would appreciate a few hours of your time doing something practical (leafleting and collecting in the street doesn't fit the bill, but maybe delivering meals or spending time on a children's ward does)? This works especially well if you have a unique skill. Let's say you're good at making websites - have a look at charity's online (particularly small, local ones) and if you see one in need, perhaps offer to update their site for free? Or if you're incredibly charming on the phone, perhaps you could offer to ring around companies for them for donations.

Friendship and familial relationships can also fulfil this need. Anyone you've been neglecting? Any friends who'd appreciate a babysitter? Anyone who needs an ear to listen?

Oh and by the way...I mentioned looking for specialist advice for people who've lost their jobs. If you don't find any, perhaps this could be the opportunity for you? You said you were interested in psychology. Especially if it's a widespread local problem.

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Without a doubt, my mood around finding work is has been very down. I've noticed how it effects my confidence socially, not to mention around dating anyone. I was giving it some consideration that my porn habit is less of an addiction and more of a compulsion I have when I feel lonely. My latest strategy was to download one movie, and keep it on my computer to diffuse the spell of "finding and downloading" since the actual movies are never as good the excitement of getting one. Well, after a couple days, I deleted it cause I was afraid I would think about it too much. Not sure where I am going with this, but I do know that porn can never take the place of self-confidence.

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Another pattern I've been reflecting on is how sexual pleasure can be dissonant. That is, one part of me is experiencing pleasure (say from a fulfillment of having sex with a pretty woman, whether it be fantasy or real), while another part of me feels dissatisfied and checked out of the experience. It is this dissonance that I find intriguing and perhaps helpful to be aware of. Its dissatisfaction has led me to consider what I really want and a healthy sexuality worth pursuing.

Projecting on some woman (whether it be porn or real) some fetish of mine has not proven to feel satisfying. An alternative that I maybe really wanting is building trust with someone that accepts me for who I am and I her. Pleasure with emotional resonance or something like that.

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While local U.S. police use excessive force and violence against OWS protesters, the U.S. government continues to attempt to spread "freedom and democracy" of this exact same kind around the world. Reports come in daily about beatings, clubbings, tasering, a female having her bicycle thrown at her and disabled veterans being abused.

Meanwhile, Libya attempts to free itself from this "freedom and democracy" scourge brought to Libya by thousands of terrorists: murderers, psychopaths, head chopping nut cases that enjoy bodily mutilation even when the body is already dead, raping women, looting, burning. Oh, the joy of freedom and demon-crazy compliments of NATO Nazis.

NATO literally dumped this murderous trash into the country, to fight alongside local criminals and traitors in order to plunder the country's resources. So NATO did more than drop illegal weaponry, including chemical and biological agents...white phosphorous, depleted uranium, sarin. Outbreaks have occurred of tuberculosis due to biological weapons.

The water supply has both been bombed out of operation and poisoned. Western citizen taxpayer money was spent to "break the backs" of Libyans who will not submit to the terrorist government of NTC.

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/09-01-2012/120180-us_pushing...

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