When Madonna-whore complex opens the door to porn addiction
Why do some men prefer manufactured porn to their real, loving partners? Writer Lisa E Scott believes that their narcissism is a major cause.
Freudian psychologists have long recognised the Madonna-whore complex, where some men are unable to be sexually satisfied by a women who offers them love and security. They categorize women into one of two separate categories—saintly or sexy. They have a very difficult time seeing a woman as both.
Once a sexy woman has been conquered by the narcissist, she slowly loses her desirability. The more comfortable the relationship becomes and the more caring she becomes, the less enticing she is to him sexually. She becomes a saintly mother figure, but he instinctively begins to look elsewhere for sexual thrills. And that's where porn comes in.
Lisa explains further:
Many narcissists revert to pornography at this point, because it portrays women as whores. Pornography is degrading to women, and this is exactly what turns a narcissist on. Many become addicted to pornography.
A narcissist eventually withdraws sexually from any type of intimate relationship you once had with him. I believe it is inevitable in any long-term relationship with a narcissist. You become sexless. You become the Madonna. He still needs you, no doubt. However, this is not because he is in love with you in any adult or mature way. He needs you to continue to cater to his needs. He needs you to ensure that someone will always be present to stroke his ego, should the outside world fall short of his expectations.
So is today's easy access to porn breeding more and more narcissistic young men? Lisa certainly thinks so.
Many teens today are learning about sex and love through pornography. As a result, I believe they see the two as mutually exclusive.
For women who struggle with a narcissistic and distracted partner, Lisa's site offers the following advice:
You cannot change a narcissist, but you can take steps to make changes in your life that will make you happier. I believe that is our goal...to accept what we cannot change and change what we can. We have the ability to evolve, which is a beautiful thing. We are responsible for the choices we make in life and we can choose to be happy or we can choose to play the victim.
Further support and discussion is available on her forum.
Porn Game Over is Jason's self-help plan for quitting the habit. Click here for a fresh approach to internet pornography addiction...
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12 comments
I've heard a lot of partners
I've heard a lot of partners of sex addicts say that they suspect their husbands are narcissists, in the Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) sense of the word. I'm skeptical that this is the case in most situations. First of all, how does one know if a porn addict has a personality disorder in addition to the sex addiction or if the sex addiction is only causing NPD-like symptoms? This addiction can seriously change the afflicted's personality as long as the person is active in the addiction. What's more, addicts are narcissistic (read: selfish) by definition--with or without NPD.
For one, NPD seems pretty difficult for therapists to diagnose. Also, as Lisa points out here, narcissists are incapable of changing, BUT there are many porn/sex addicts who experience a lot of change with the right therapy and recovery. As for the Madonna-Whore complex being a classic symptom of narcissism, I'd argue that a steady, compulsive dose of porn would give anyone a Madonna-Whore complex, not just those with NPD.
P.S. That's not to say that
P.S. That's not to say that some porn addicts aren't narcissists--I'm sure a handful are. But I think that the diagnosis is thrown around much too carelessly in the discussion of porn addiction, considering that so many people addicted to porn do have a tremendous amount of success at breaking the habit.
Hi Margaux, Thanks - I
Hi Margaux,
Thanks - I thought you might have some views on this one :)
And I'm inclined to agree with you. Compulsive porn viewing certainly can instil a Madonna-whore-like outlook, regardless of any narcissistic traits. There's a lot of overlap here with the 'porn goggles' experience reported by so many guys.
From my experience in working with guys struggling with porn, I might have observed some NPD tendencies that underlaid the attraction to porn for some individuals. But as you say, it's difficult to pinpoint and I don't have any firm conclusions on this.
I enjoyed Lisa E Scott's writing though, and her forum looks like a useful resource.
this struck a chord for me.
this struck a chord for me. ive been subscribed to this blog for a while but never commented before.
when ive confronted my husband over his porn addiction (magazines, movies,internet websites, you name it) i either get denial or humble honesty. on the days when he gets honest with me, hes admitted that he loves me and wants to stay with me, but i dont feel like his sexual partner anymore. when ive pressed him further to explain exactly what i do mean to him these days, he has said the mother word before. i believe that i have become his madonna.
something for me to think about then. i thought that trying to be more sexy like the girls in his movies might make a difference but i have already given up on that. now i think i see why.
Jason--Ha! I must be getting
Jason--Ha! I must be getting a repution as a crazy debate queen! Seriously, though, this kind of stuff is so interesting in its complexity. And, yes, I do think sites like Lisa's are helpful for those people and their partners who are indeed dealing with NPD crossed with a porn habit.
Jessica--I think it's so easy to fall into that mother-son dynamic with a porn addict. Actually, with any addict--I know a lot of wives of alcoholics and drug addicts who have the same dynamics in their relationships. That dependency on porn bleeds over into a dependency on other people, which leads to codependency. The longer the problem went on, the more I became like a mother to my husband in an attempt to make sure our lives remained manageable--making sure bills were paid, the house stayed clean, not to mention policing his porn use and every little behavior related to his addiction. It was exhausting and, surprisingly, the more I did to keep our lives on track, the more of a mess everything became. I think that's why it's so important that we wives get help for ourselves, too. It's very important that we separate ourselves from the addiction and realize that it's not our problem to manage.
I think what you are saying
I think what you are saying here about narcissism & pornography is largely correct, & I cannot disagree with your analysis. But I would suggest that porn only feeds the narcissism, a person who is strongly narcissistic in the first place (i.e. narcissistic personality trait) cannot love another person truly anyway, nor can they truly love themselves either. That’s the problem with being a narcissist. Pornography I would suggest DOESN’T turn them into a narcissist but it does make those traits worse perhaps.
Hello Margaux, QTN:- I’ve
Hello Margaux,
QTN:- I’ve heard a lot of partners of sex addicts say that they suspect their husbands are narcissists, in the Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) sense of the word. I’m skeptical that this is the case in most situations. First of all, how does one know if a porn addict has a personality disorder in addition to the sex addiction or if the sex addiction is only causing NPD-like symptoms?
ANS:- YOU CANNOT know in reality because there are no hard & fast definitions regarding such things. For example we talk of NPD but in life there are only NDP traits or qualities there is no such thing as a pure NDP personality or type of person. There are only people who show (exhibit) such qualities to a greater or lesser degree. There is no such thing as a pure type of personality X or Y, much of language & talk in the psychological sense can actually appear rather confusing or highly mis-leading. (unless your a psychologist of course then its just technical jargon).
I feel a sense of both
I feel a sense of both sadness & pity for those people who have powerful personality disorders or strong narcissistic traits because they are often either born that way, or their very early life experience (what they grew up with in the first 5 years of life) sculpted & shaped them into what they have become. Those people we might term Narcissistic often are totally unconscious & very unaware of their self centered-ness, nor the effects they might have on those around them.
**I don't want to get into the porn obsession or porn compulsion verses porn addiction debate here but I would say that a person who has strong qualities of narcissism. That the narcissism comes (develops) prior to, or before, or is already present before the use of porn. The use of porn only exacerbates the narcissism NOT the other way around.
Thanks for explaining,
Thanks for explaining, Alex--everything you said makes a ton of sense. I think what worries me most about people throwing around the term "narcissist" when it comes to porn addiction/compulsion/whatever you want to call it, is because it's both difficult to diagnose and because one symptom of the disorder is an inability to change. Jumping to conclusions and saying someone is a narcissist could send the message to someone who actually does have the ability to kick the porn habit that there's no hope and they might as well not try.
I've also noticed that the women who are quick to label their husbands as narcissists are often those who aren't seeking help for themselves. They're stuck in a victim mentality and aren't being proactive about their own healing. That's not to say that we partners are to blame for the porn issue, but I think it is important to take a look at ourselves and notice the role we play in keeping the "dance" or the "emotional games" going. Often, participating in the emotional games serves as a way of "numbing out" in our own lives. In many cases, by telling ourselves that our partner can't change, we're giving ourselves the license to stay stuck as well, whether or not we decide to stay in the relationship.
Interesting dichotomy:
Interesting dichotomy: saintly and sexy. Its a shame those two ideas are mutually exclusive in our culture.
I've always liked reading the Christian Nymphos blog - http://christiannymphos.org/ - Really blows that supposed dichotomy out of the water.
I totally agree that narcissism is a major root cause for many men who struggle with this. From a Christian perspective, this is called self-worship - http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2009/06/17/getting-to-the-root-of-lust-...
sexy
Maybe the woman has her own retreats too, like eating to much. Not sure where you have the authority to say cannot change a narcissist, plenty of female ones as well
libido mismatch
So here is a completely different setup of the MWC.
So my 'client' was extremely unhappy and eventually her story appeared to be a textbook classical case of MWC. All elements seemed to fit. Yet, when discussing this, she kept having doubts.
Eventually she divorced and found a new bf with whom she has intense intimacy -apparantly to make up for the lost years- but frequency and duration do not seem to diminish at all with time.
Conclusion: No MWC but a serious libido mismatch. She was simply too demanding for her husband, who was too embarrashed/proud to tell the truth, but instead removed himself from her bed, rejected her eventually and diverted his desires elswhere.
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